persimmon

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NOTE: there is rarely any "standard" or "typical" look for a wood so take what's in this table with a grain of salt
the REST of the pictures on this page will give you a better overall feel for this wood

persimmon / Diospyros spp. of the family Ebenaceae
3" x 3" flat cut, 3" x 3" quartersawn, 1" x 1" end grain, and a 1/4" x 1/4" end grain closeup.

Semi ring porous with sparse pores starting out medium sized and reducing to small by the end of the latewood, and with vasicentric parenchyma throughout. Occasional radial pore multiples. Reticulate parenchyma is present but usually hard to see even at 10X. Likewise seemingly marginal parenchyma. Rays are thin but visible at 10X and ring boundaries are distinct.

This wood has a VERY small heart area that is deep brown or black, which makes it clear why this is in the ebony family. The wood is generally only available as sapwood, which is creamy white, sometimes mottled with gray, and very hard and tough and resistant to wear but with a large movement in service. Used for golf club heads because of extremely high shock resistance.

click here for a discussion of the genus Diospyros

If not cut at the right time of year and dried properly, the wood will season to an ugly gray pretty much throughout, not just on the surface, and it is very prone to warping if not dried properly. One of my own sample chunks (see below) started out as an unseasoned log portion that was off-white but after it had been seasoned for a year or two, it was gray inside and out when I cut it up. I had heard anecdotally that the gray was only "skin deep" but that is clearly not the case.

The graying process does stop after a while. One of the little chunks referenced in the paragraph directly above sat around for several years and was still exactly the same color as it is shown on this page. I assume then that the graying is part of the seasoning and stops once the wood is seasoned.

my samples:
NOTE: these pics were all taken in very bright incandescent lighting ("soft white" at 2700K)
colors will vary under other lighting conditions

both sides and both ends of a sample of persimmon / Diospyros spp. --- this is an EXCELLENT sample, showing as it does the very small "ebony" heart

end grain closeup from the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of black persimmon / Diospyros digyna --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. Note that Diospyros digyna is just a synonym for Diospyros nigra.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

NOT A RAW WOOD COLOR --- both faces of this sample have a light coat of clear paste wax
both sides of a sample plank of black persimmon (black sapote) / Diospyros digyna --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. Note that Diospyros digyna is just a synonym for Diospyros nigra.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of Texas persimmon / Diospyros texana --- HUGE enlargements are present.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of Texas persimmon / Diospyros texana --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of Mexican persimmon / Diospyros texana --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

both sides of a sample plank of persimmon / Diospyros virginiana --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. The labeled side is raw but the 2nd side has been sanded down to 240 grit and thus looks a bit richer in color and shows the face grain details a bit better.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of common persimmon / Diospyros virginiana

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

sample plank listed as persimmon / Diospyros virginiana and end grain --- this is totally unlike my other samples of that species and also totally unlike any description I've ever seen of persimmon, so I'm not at all convinced that it IS persimmon. The end grain closeup below, other than the color difference, DOES look like my other samples, so perhaps this is persimmon. Also, it DOES somewhat resemble some of the web pics below. This NOT being representative of a species is fairly typical of the samples I got from the IWCS, but for this particular wood, I am inclined to think that it IS to some extent because of the wood --- when persimmon is not cut and dried just right, it DOES end up looking bad, although generally it's a lighter gray as you can see from my sample below, and not the greenish-brown of this sample plank.

end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of Chinese persimmon / Diospyros kaki --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. I note that in French Canada, where this was labeled, it seems to go by a common name that is just the specific epithet --- It also uses that name in Japan

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of myrtle ebony / Diospyros pentamera --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. This is an Australian member of the ebony family. One of its common names is "Australian persimmon" and another is "gray persimmon".

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of gray persimmon / Diospyros pentamera --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of persimmon / Diospyros verae-crusi --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. Diospyros verae-crusi is a synonym of Diospyros acapulcensis. The purple tint is correct.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of Hawaiian persimmon / Diospyros ferrea var sandwicensis --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of persimmon / Diospyros ferrea var sandwicensis --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of persimmon / Diospyros verae-crucis --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of velvet persimmon / Diospyros blancoi --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of velvet persimmon / Diospyros blancoi--- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by Mark Peet whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site.

end grain and HIGH GRIT END GRAIN CLOSEUP of the piece directly above

both sides of a sample plank of malatinta / Diospyros maritima --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. The very light orange color is correct and I assume the gray is the discoloration that often occurs in persimmon if it is not cut and dried perfectly correctly.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

both sides of a sample plank of japanese persimmon / Diospyros kaki --- HUGE enlargements are present. This sample was loaned to me by David Clark whom I thank for this and other contributions to the site. This is a very light wood. For a Diospyros, it is REALLY light.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

first face and the end grain of a sample of persimmon / Diospyros spp. This part of a collection which is discussed here: COLLECTION B

the second face, before and after slicing off 1/8" showing how the patina from aging is only surface deep.

end grain closeup and END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above.

this is the dealer's pic of a log section I bought, not fully dried. After a year or two (I forget, actually) of air drying, I split it up and made little planks to use in by bowls, but I am VERY disappointed in the color, which is almost uniformly gray, not even close to white. All of the pieces below are from this small log. There were a lot of worm-holes but I mostly put those on the down side so they don't show up in the pics. The whitish color of the log is accurate --- the gray seems to have crept in over time, and my understanding is that that is common for persimmon and happens throughout the wood, not just on the surface.

these pieces are the two sides split directly off the center, showing the classic tiny "ebony" center that is common to persimmon.

various pics, including end grain closeups, of the bunch of small planks I made from the split up log section --- as you can see, there is very little white, just about all gray. Nice grain pattern, but unattractive color.

end grain closeup and END GRAIN UPDATE of one of those pieces directly above

All of the pics in this section are of a bunch of samples provided by James Caraway,
whom I thank for the contribution to the site.

Here's a pic of the batch of logs that these were cut from. Because these pieces were all cut at the "wrong" time of year and were not subjected to a tightly controlled kiln drying schedule they developed the pretty much ineviable gray color that I also experienced on my other set of samples above. The pieces that show as fairly bright yellow have some kind of patina on them, or perhaps it's due to a protective coating that James put on them. I forgot to ask. Almost all of the pieces he sent started out this color but as you can see, it sands right off.

three views of a little piece from the middle of one of the logs, showing the ebony heartwood.

small bowl blank and end grain shot

end grain closeup of the piece directly above

although this is a face grain closeup and and side grain closeup of the piece directly above, both are rift cut sections so there's very little difference.

small plank, fairly well sanded, and end grain shot

end grain closeup and END GRAIN UPDATE of the piece directly above

face grain closeup and side grain closeup of the piece directly above --- both are rift cut but the side grain is closer to quartersawn than the face grain.

small plank, fairly well sanded, and end grain shot

end grain closeup of the piece directly above and an END GRAIN UPDATE from the other end

face grain (flat cut) closeup and side grain (quartersawn) closeup of the piece directly above

both sides of a couple of other sample pieces. Note that on the bottom one I only sanded down one side so the other still shows the yellow patina (or whatever it is). The discoloration on the upper piece is white rot spalting.

both sides of a piece cut from the upper one of the pieces above. HUGE enlargements are present. The yellow areas are white rot spalting. My color correction added a slight orange tinge to the wood. It should be the same gray color as in the pics of the larger piece above.

end grain and end grain closeup of the piece directly above

END GRAIN UPDATE from directly above

the rest of the pieces James put in the box. Notice that I only sanded some of them; the top two still have the yellow patina. Some of these show small areas of the ebony heartwood.

end of the section on pieces contributed by James Caraway

The Wood Book pics

flat cut, quartersawn, end grain
persimmon (Diospyros virginiana) from The Wood Book --- both levels of enlargement are present for all 3 views

web pics:

end grain

slabs

both sides of a pair of planks --- enlargements are present

plank --- color is too orange to be believable

plank with bark --- color is likely quite accurate

a very well-photographed, 3" long, piece listed as persimmon / Diospyros virginiana, with both levels of enlargement.

a very well-photographed, 3" long, piece listed as Japansese persimmon (kaki) / Diospyros daki, with both levels of enlargement.

plank listed as persimmon / Diospyros blancoi

planks with accurate color --- the warping on that last one is common with this wood

freshly cut plank --- I'm not sure about the pink tint on this; some woods (sycamore for example) have some red when freshly cut that fades away pretty quickly so this might well be correct.

rough cut plank

planks with no heartwood

planks with colors that I'm doubtful about

plank from a reasonably reliable source but with a color that I find unconvincing. This source had some other woods shown with more red than they should have shown and I believe that has to be the case here.

listed as persimmon plank, but I don't believe that for a minute. Looks a lot more like pine, but whatever it is, it is not persimmon.

plank listed as Diospyros kaki (Japanese persimmon)

these planks were listed as persimmon, but I'm not convinced that that's what they are --- everything about them seems wrong for persimmon: the color, the open-pore graininess, and the change in color from light brown to brown to dark brown all look wrong. This looks much more like limba to me.